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	<title>Comments on: How Could You Not Know You Were Gay?</title>
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	<description>Commentary on Being Gay in Mid-Life and Beyond</description>
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		<title>By: Loren A. Olson M.D.</title>
		<link>http://www.magneticfire.com/2009/12/05/how-could-you-not-know-you-were-gay/comment-page-1/#comment-26507</link>
		<dc:creator>Loren A. Olson M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Mar 2011 15:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.magneticfire.com/?p=520#comment-26507</guid>
		<description>T. J.

One of the great joys of coming out is the freedom to be yourself.  What is essential is to give up always looking to others for approval but being able to find that approval within yourself.

Loren Olson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T. J.</p>
<p>One of the great joys of coming out is the freedom to be yourself.  What is essential is to give up always looking to others for approval but being able to find that approval within yourself.</p>
<p>Loren Olson</p>
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		<title>By: T.J. Charney</title>
		<link>http://www.magneticfire.com/2009/12/05/how-could-you-not-know-you-were-gay/comment-page-1/#comment-26506</link>
		<dc:creator>T.J. Charney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.magneticfire.com/?p=520#comment-26506</guid>
		<description>Loren,

I discovered that you had written a book after posting my comment and quickly downloaded it to my iPhone Kindle app.  I&#039;m in chapter 5 already.  

I&#039;ve been able to identify with several things you&#039;ve said already and though I came out three years ago at 28, I can relate to a lot of what those men and you went through having played the straight role for so many years.  

Now, I&#039;m not only still coming out, but also learning, as you said in the book, to be completely myself and let my more feminine side come through instead of acting macho.  

I appreciate your writing and I will be certain to include Kinsey&#039;s research in my own as well as your idea of coming out being a trajectory. Very interesting!  

I will stay in touch! 

T.J.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loren,</p>
<p>I discovered that you had written a book after posting my comment and quickly downloaded it to my iPhone Kindle app.  I&#8217;m in chapter 5 already.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been able to identify with several things you&#8217;ve said already and though I came out three years ago at 28, I can relate to a lot of what those men and you went through having played the straight role for so many years.  </p>
<p>Now, I&#8217;m not only still coming out, but also learning, as you said in the book, to be completely myself and let my more feminine side come through instead of acting macho.  </p>
<p>I appreciate your writing and I will be certain to include Kinsey&#8217;s research in my own as well as your idea of coming out being a trajectory. Very interesting!  </p>
<p>I will stay in touch! </p>
<p>T.J.</p>
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		<title>By: Loren A. Olson M.D.</title>
		<link>http://www.magneticfire.com/2009/12/05/how-could-you-not-know-you-were-gay/comment-page-1/#comment-26487</link>
		<dc:creator>Loren A. Olson M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Mar 2011 10:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.magneticfire.com/?p=520#comment-26487</guid>
		<description>T J,

You bring up a number of interesting and important issues.  I have addressed some of it in my book, &lt;em&gt;Finally Out: Letting Go of Living Straight&lt;/em&gt;.  We tend to think of sexuality in a binary way, we&#039;re either gay or straight.  Some are strongly supportive of an additional label of bisexuality, and I was recently challenged when I said that &quot;bisexuality&quot; suggests that a person is equally attracted to both men and women.  My correspondent strongly believes that bisexuality represents everything between exclusively heterosexual to exclusively homosexual.

I find &quot;men who have sex with men (MSM) a better term.  Is a person who has homosexual fantasies but has sex only with women heterosexual or bisexual?  What of the man who defines himself as heterosexual but has sex exclusively or nearly exclusively with men (and there are lots of men like that).  We must look at our sexuality in terms of our sexual fantasies, sexual behavior and sexual identity, and &lt;em&gt;they are not necedssarily congruent&lt;/em&gt;, nor are they necessariy constant over time.  I started out &quot;heterosexual,&quot; went through a period of thinking of myself as bisexual, and now would identifiy myself as exclusively homosexual.

One resource to consult is Lisa Diamond&#039;s book, &lt;em&gt;Sexual Fluidity: Understanding Women&#039;s Love and Desire&lt;/em&gt;.  In her book, she theorizes that for women, the gender of sexual attraction for women may be much more fluid than it is for men.  She believes -- as I do -- that men&#039;s sexual desire is more fixed.  In fact, in my experience -- both my own and with men I have interviewed -- men who experience same sex attractions become more and more exclusive in their homosexuality over time.

I continue to be on board with Kinsey&#039;s original description of their being a spectrum of sexual desire, from exclusively homosexual to exclusively heterosexual, with a lot of alternatives in between.  Kinsey&#039;s work should be a part of your study of male sexuality.

You will also want to become familiar with the studies related to &quot;coming out.&quot;  The original work suggested that coming out was a linear process that occured in stages, and suggested that sexual identity in most cases was completed by the mid-twenties.  I was pretty confused about that since my coming out began at age forty!  Later work suggests that the coming out process is more like a trajectory that can cover the life span.  For men who have led heterosexual lives, I have described it more like a sailing ship, going from port to port in heavy seas and strong head winds.

Stay in touch.  Keep me posted.

Loren Olson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T J,</p>
<p>You bring up a number of interesting and important issues.  I have addressed some of it in my book, <em>Finally Out: Letting Go of Living Straight</em>.  We tend to think of sexuality in a binary way, we&#8217;re either gay or straight.  Some are strongly supportive of an additional label of bisexuality, and I was recently challenged when I said that &#8220;bisexuality&#8221; suggests that a person is equally attracted to both men and women.  My correspondent strongly believes that bisexuality represents everything between exclusively heterosexual to exclusively homosexual.</p>
<p>I find &#8220;men who have sex with men (MSM) a better term.  Is a person who has homosexual fantasies but has sex only with women heterosexual or bisexual?  What of the man who defines himself as heterosexual but has sex exclusively or nearly exclusively with men (and there are lots of men like that).  We must look at our sexuality in terms of our sexual fantasies, sexual behavior and sexual identity, and <em>they are not necedssarily congruent</em>, nor are they necessariy constant over time.  I started out &#8220;heterosexual,&#8221; went through a period of thinking of myself as bisexual, and now would identifiy myself as exclusively homosexual.</p>
<p>One resource to consult is Lisa Diamond&#8217;s book, <em>Sexual Fluidity: Understanding Women&#8217;s Love and Desire</em>.  In her book, she theorizes that for women, the gender of sexual attraction for women may be much more fluid than it is for men.  She believes &#8212; as I do &#8212; that men&#8217;s sexual desire is more fixed.  In fact, in my experience &#8212; both my own and with men I have interviewed &#8212; men who experience same sex attractions become more and more exclusive in their homosexuality over time.</p>
<p>I continue to be on board with Kinsey&#8217;s original description of their being a spectrum of sexual desire, from exclusively homosexual to exclusively heterosexual, with a lot of alternatives in between.  Kinsey&#8217;s work should be a part of your study of male sexuality.</p>
<p>You will also want to become familiar with the studies related to &#8220;coming out.&#8221;  The original work suggested that coming out was a linear process that occured in stages, and suggested that sexual identity in most cases was completed by the mid-twenties.  I was pretty confused about that since my coming out began at age forty!  Later work suggests that the coming out process is more like a trajectory that can cover the life span.  For men who have led heterosexual lives, I have described it more like a sailing ship, going from port to port in heavy seas and strong head winds.</p>
<p>Stay in touch.  Keep me posted.</p>
<p>Loren Olson</p>
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		<title>By: T.J. Charney</title>
		<link>http://www.magneticfire.com/2009/12/05/how-could-you-not-know-you-were-gay/comment-page-1/#comment-26474</link>
		<dc:creator>T.J. Charney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Mar 2011 05:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.magneticfire.com/?p=520#comment-26474</guid>
		<description>Loren,

Don&#039;t know if you&#039;re going to get this message because I know this post is pretty old in information age years. I&#039;m a doctoral student in clinical psychology and am thinking of doing a dissertation on gay men and defense mechanisms. I think reaction formation is a big one as well as the dissociation you mentioned. 

The more I accepted my sexuality, the less interest I had in women. Whenever I experienced a moment of weakness in my gay self identity, attractions toward women would magically appear. When I feel affirmed, they are not there almost at all. I find this topic fascinating and I thought your comment on being attracted to a fence post in puberty was spot on. 

I noticed my opposite sex attractions begin their slow demise as I moved past those sexual peak years. I would love to hear more from you if you have any more resources on this topic. I&#039;ll check back for your response, but feel free to email me as well. Thanks again and I&#039;ll also look around this website for more of your writings.

Sincerely,
T.J.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loren,</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;re going to get this message because I know this post is pretty old in information age years. I&#8217;m a doctoral student in clinical psychology and am thinking of doing a dissertation on gay men and defense mechanisms. I think reaction formation is a big one as well as the dissociation you mentioned. </p>
<p>The more I accepted my sexuality, the less interest I had in women. Whenever I experienced a moment of weakness in my gay self identity, attractions toward women would magically appear. When I feel affirmed, they are not there almost at all. I find this topic fascinating and I thought your comment on being attracted to a fence post in puberty was spot on. </p>
<p>I noticed my opposite sex attractions begin their slow demise as I moved past those sexual peak years. I would love to hear more from you if you have any more resources on this topic. I&#8217;ll check back for your response, but feel free to email me as well. Thanks again and I&#8217;ll also look around this website for more of your writings.</p>
<p>Sincerely,<br />
T.J.</p>
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		<title>By: Loren A. Olson M.D.</title>
		<link>http://www.magneticfire.com/2009/12/05/how-could-you-not-know-you-were-gay/comment-page-1/#comment-214</link>
		<dc:creator>Loren A. Olson M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 14:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.magneticfire.com/?p=520#comment-214</guid>
		<description>Scott, It is important to know that you are not alone in this.  Many of us have been through something similar.  My own first steps in dealing with my sexuality were in a support group for gay fathers -- There should be a lot more of them.  That was almost 25 years ago, and many of those men remain my friends.

The biggest change in my life was moving from thinking, &quot;I&#039;m not like THOSE people&quot; to recognizing that those people were in fact a very diverse group of men, many who were a great deal like me, and many who were not.  The first step is often shaking free from all of those internal stereotypes we all have, growing up in a rather homosexually-hostile society.

Good luck with your continuing process.  Thanks for your comment.  Welcome, and come back.

Loren Olson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, It is important to know that you are not alone in this.  Many of us have been through something similar.  My own first steps in dealing with my sexuality were in a support group for gay fathers &#8212; There should be a lot more of them.  That was almost 25 years ago, and many of those men remain my friends.</p>
<p>The biggest change in my life was moving from thinking, &#8220;I&#8217;m not like THOSE people&#8221; to recognizing that those people were in fact a very diverse group of men, many who were a great deal like me, and many who were not.  The first step is often shaking free from all of those internal stereotypes we all have, growing up in a rather homosexually-hostile society.</p>
<p>Good luck with your continuing process.  Thanks for your comment.  Welcome, and come back.</p>
<p>Loren Olson</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.magneticfire.com/2009/12/05/how-could-you-not-know-you-were-gay/comment-page-1/#comment-211</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 16:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.magneticfire.com/?p=520#comment-211</guid>
		<description>This post really hits where I am.  I&#039;m a gay man still married at this point.  I grew up in a small Minnesota farming town.  I&#039;m not aware of any out gays in my home town.  For me growing up, I thought I was just different, but it wasn&#039;t until college that I saw gays as something different than something that people poked fun at.  Unfortunately that was the early 80&#039;s and when the AIDS crisis hit and terrified me from even wanting to try sex with men.  I guess I got scared into marriage.  I&#039;m like you in that I was unable to continue to resist the call to try sex with men.  In the last two years I&#039;ve finally faced facts that I&#039;m gay.  I&#039;m now working on deciding how to deal with my marriage.  My son is 14 and I don&#039;t want totally disrupt his life at this time.  Thank you deeply for your blog, it&#039;s a great help for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post really hits where I am.  I&#8217;m a gay man still married at this point.  I grew up in a small Minnesota farming town.  I&#8217;m not aware of any out gays in my home town.  For me growing up, I thought I was just different, but it wasn&#8217;t until college that I saw gays as something different than something that people poked fun at.  Unfortunately that was the early 80&#8242;s and when the AIDS crisis hit and terrified me from even wanting to try sex with men.  I guess I got scared into marriage.  I&#8217;m like you in that I was unable to continue to resist the call to try sex with men.  In the last two years I&#8217;ve finally faced facts that I&#8217;m gay.  I&#8217;m now working on deciding how to deal with my marriage.  My son is 14 and I don&#8217;t want totally disrupt his life at this time.  Thank you deeply for your blog, it&#8217;s a great help for me.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe G.</title>
		<link>http://www.magneticfire.com/2009/12/05/how-could-you-not-know-you-were-gay/comment-page-1/#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 02:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.magneticfire.com/?p=520#comment-191</guid>
		<description>BTW, I meant &quot;Your thoughts about this topics&quot;; I didn&#039;t mean to include myself.

Your last story about the man who came out after 50 years of marriage is indeed interesting for me. A whole area of men who love men I have little awareness of. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, I meant &#8220;Your thoughts about this topics&#8221;; I didn&#8217;t mean to include myself.</p>
<p>Your last story about the man who came out after 50 years of marriage is indeed interesting for me. A whole area of men who love men I have little awareness of. <img src='http://www.magneticfire.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Loren A. Olson M.D.</title>
		<link>http://www.magneticfire.com/2009/12/05/how-could-you-not-know-you-were-gay/comment-page-1/#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>Loren A. Olson M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 01:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.magneticfire.com/?p=520#comment-190</guid>
		<description>This follow-up comment came from Joe G.  (I&#039;m just learning how to do the comments and responses.  Sorry

Hey Loren

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

I didn&#039;t mean to imply that everyone who comes out later in life was bisexual. I was thinking that, perhaps for some people, the reason why they come out later is because they have genuinely felt some attraction to the opposite sex, but later in life realize that there is more to their sexuality than what they first thought.

Interesting topic and look forward to more of our thoughts about this an other topics.

Joe

Loren&#039;s response to Joe&#039;s post:

I don&#039;t know about most men but I do know that many men have gone through a transition where they thought they were bisexual.  As one person commented to me on Twitter, &quot;There are more than just three options.&quot;

When I was young, I could have had sexual arousal from a fence post or riding on the school bus.  As I began to experience a greater sense of confusion, I knew only that there was straight, gay and bisexual.  When someone said to me, &quot;There&#039;s no such thing as bisexual; only people in transition,&quot; I went back to believing that I was heterosexual because I was not yet ready to accept the label of &quot;gay.&quot;

One man who took my survey was married over 50 years, loved his wife until she died, and only then began to consider the possibility that perhaps his sexual orientation was something other than what he believed.  He now lives with a same sex partner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This follow-up comment came from Joe G.  (I&#8217;m just learning how to do the comments and responses.  Sorry</p>
<p>Hey Loren</p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughtful response.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t mean to imply that everyone who comes out later in life was bisexual. I was thinking that, perhaps for some people, the reason why they come out later is because they have genuinely felt some attraction to the opposite sex, but later in life realize that there is more to their sexuality than what they first thought.</p>
<p>Interesting topic and look forward to more of our thoughts about this an other topics.</p>
<p>Joe</p>
<p>Loren&#8217;s response to Joe&#8217;s post:</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know about most men but I do know that many men have gone through a transition where they thought they were bisexual.  As one person commented to me on Twitter, &#8220;There are more than just three options.&#8221;</p>
<p>When I was young, I could have had sexual arousal from a fence post or riding on the school bus.  As I began to experience a greater sense of confusion, I knew only that there was straight, gay and bisexual.  When someone said to me, &#8220;There&#8217;s no such thing as bisexual; only people in transition,&#8221; I went back to believing that I was heterosexual because I was not yet ready to accept the label of &#8220;gay.&#8221;</p>
<p>One man who took my survey was married over 50 years, loved his wife until she died, and only then began to consider the possibility that perhaps his sexual orientation was something other than what he believed.  He now lives with a same sex partner.</p>
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		<title>By: Loren A. Olson M.D.</title>
		<link>http://www.magneticfire.com/2009/12/05/how-could-you-not-know-you-were-gay/comment-page-1/#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>Loren A. Olson M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 01:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.magneticfire.com/?p=520#comment-189</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your participation in this discussion and for sharing these intimate details of your experience.  It is really important to gain the perspective of spouses.  Contrary to what many believe, many gay men love their wives and hate the idea that they might hurt them and their children.  

There is an important resource which spouses should know about called the Straight Spouse Network.  Here is that link:  
http://www.straightspouse.org/home.php

Thanks again for your in-put.

Loren Olson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your participation in this discussion and for sharing these intimate details of your experience.  It is really important to gain the perspective of spouses.  Contrary to what many believe, many gay men love their wives and hate the idea that they might hurt them and their children.  </p>
<p>There is an important resource which spouses should know about called the Straight Spouse Network.  Here is that link:<br />
<a href="http://www.straightspouse.org/home.php" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.straightspouse.org/home.php?referer=');">http://www.straightspouse.org/home.php</a></p>
<p>Thanks again for your in-put.</p>
<p>Loren Olson</p>
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		<title>By: Loren A. Olson M.D.</title>
		<link>http://www.magneticfire.com/2009/12/05/how-could-you-not-know-you-were-gay/comment-page-1/#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator>Loren A. Olson M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 01:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.magneticfire.com/?p=520#comment-188</guid>
		<description>For most, the internet has changed access to information, although it is still not available in areas with limited access to the internet.  Unfortunately, the internet has access to all information and some of it is pretty bad, and it is difficult to find good information in the middle of all the porn sites.

Loren Olson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For most, the internet has changed access to information, although it is still not available in areas with limited access to the internet.  Unfortunately, the internet has access to all information and some of it is pretty bad, and it is difficult to find good information in the middle of all the porn sites.</p>
<p>Loren Olson</p>
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