The Second Coming (Out) of Gay Men – Part II
This is Part II of a three part series which will explore the relationships of younger gay men and older gay men.
Why do Some Younger Men Like Older Gay Men?
“Don’t leave your kids in the same room with a homosexual while you go shopping.”
Female High School Principal who had sex with 14 yr old male student
I was cautioned about writing about intergenerational relationships for fear that my comments will be taken out of context and my intentions misrepresented. Some members of the LGBT community are fearful that discussing these relationships will further ignite accusations by anti-gay activists that gay people intend to recruit children into membership. They claim is all a part of a (non-existent) “militant gay agenda” that includes recruitment “since gay people can’t replenish their numbers through procreation.”
But these intergenerational relationships between an older and a younger man are common enough and misunderstood enough to justify some discussion. Intergenerational or cross-generational relationships are those relationships between two men where the younger is attracted to an older and the older is attracted to a younger man, and the age difference in their ages is 15 or more years.
I believe that the lack of information, the prejudices and the misunderstandings about intergenerational relationships exist because heterosexual society believes all gay relationships are predatory. This misrepresentation of the nature of gay relationships is a matter of considerable concern. This myth is promoted by socio-conservatives, and by pseudo-scientific conversion-reparative therapies (CRT) and ex-gay ministries that promise to change a person from a primarily homosexual orientation to a primarily heterosexual one but are fraught with their own scandals
The basic tenets of all of these ideologies are that:
1. Homosexuality is pathological and/or sinful
2. Homosexuality is a choice
3. Sexual orientation can be changed to heterosexual orientation, suppressed and controlled.
Here is something taken from the website of one:
Despite their public pronouncements to the contrary, the goal of homosexual activists is not tolerance for themselves, or even tolerance of children who declare themselves gay or lesbian–whatever that can mean in the case of unfocused teen sexuality.
No, the true goal is saturation and conversion, leading to a redefinition of sexual norms and a world of gay celebration and affirmation. Because adults are not likely to change their views, these gay activists know that their best chance of succeeding is to change the hearts and minds of children, largely by undermining the values taught by their parents. Therefore subversion, not tolerance, is their goal.
19 yr old heterosexual who raped 13 yr old girl
And then there is this comment from former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum: “If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual (gay) sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything.
These fears about sexual predation have been politically inflamed during recent marriage equality law elections. Opponents of gay marriage have used the politics of fear both in fund raising and in their ads which said that passing marriage equality would lead to “mandatory explicit homosexual instruction in the classroom,” even though the bills had nothing in the bills had language which could be interpreted in that way.
But stirring up fear about homosexuality, suggesting there is a militant gay agenda that is designed to brainwash the minds of children, has been enough to defeat marriage equality in several states. The underlying theme is always, “Don’t leave your kids with a homosexual.”
Many of the misunderstandings about intergenerational gay men’s relationships also relate to a belief that relationships between older and younger men must also be predatory in nature. Most of the straight world would prefer not to know intergenerational gay relationships exist. But the belief that they must be predatory is frequently shared by members of the LGBT community as well, although perhaps more in terms of an imbalance in power and money than coercion. Many of the younger men in these relationships have been hurt by remarks from their gay friends who have accused them of looking for a sugar daddy.
Since it is virtually impossible to get accurate statistics about the extent of any homosexual relationships it is virtually impossible to do meaningful reasearch on the subject, and no one really knows how often intergenerational relationships occur between gay men. It does seem likely that they occur more often in same sex relationships than in heterosexual ones.
Because gay men have illegitimately been accused of being child molesters, many in the LGBT want to distance themselves in every way from the suggestion that gay men and women are pedophiles. If intergenerational gay relationships are seen in any way as predatory, some will conclude that it is proof of a dangerous and irreversible course leading eventually to recruiting children into homosexuality.
Almost everyone would agree that a sexual relationship with someone in childhood or pre-adolescence, or when there is coercion of any sort, is wrong, but opinions vary passionately, and sometimes furiously, about at what age a boy has the psychological and emotional maturity to give consent since the age of emotional and physical changes of puberty vary considerably from one boy to the next.
But intergenerational relationships are not an extension of pedophilia, are not based on an imbalance of power in the relationship, and are relationships where the participants have the capacity for mature consent.
So what can be done? First, we must advocate for good sexual education, even though when the LGBT community does so, we are accused of acting on our “gay agenda” of “recruiting to a lifestyle.” We must continue to educate the public about the difference between gay relationships and pedophilia, and probably the most effective way of doing that is for us to be open about our sexual orientation, challenging the stereotypes by letting people know who we are as real people.
The members of intergenerational couples also have to deal with their own fears that their relationship could be exploitive in nature. Everyone in a relationship fears rejection by the other; love and risk are inseparable. But we project our own attractions and expectations onto the other, expecting that they love and cherish exactly the same things as we do. If I am attracted to a masculine man with ripped muscles, I may find it difficult to believe that the man with those muscles could find my too-fat, too-short, too-wrinkled body attractive.
If my own sexual drive and potency has diminished, I may not trust that the younger man will find attractive my own requirement that love making be slow and sensual love.
Both older and younger men fear that for one reason or another they will be left alone, which in fact, is the nearly inevitable consequence for one of the partners of any relationship. But members of an intergenerational couple must work through the issues of trust, shedding some of their own prejudices and acquiring new self confidence in the process.
Hi Loren,
thank you for this second part of your blog. It had a couple of eye-opening pieces of information in it that have helped me to increase my understanding of where all this heterosexist prejudice may come from.
Even though I violently disagree with the conclusions some people draw from what they think they see in same-sex relationships, your insights have helped me see where those misguided notions may have originated.
One example was your mention of the perception that there is a homosexual agenda “since gay people can’t replenish their numbers through procreation”. It is so clearly heterocentrist to think this – their key agenda, bilogically speaking is, after all, procreation. So they project their own ‘biological imperative’ onto any other group without regard to the fact that other group may not be susceptible to the same biological drivers they are.
Another example was the fact that sexual predators are not all homosexual, quite the contrary. I do have to wonder why this is so conveniently forgotten by those who go after homosexuals as if they were the only sexual predators around? Other than humankind’s ability to only remember what fits thieir belief system, I can find no logic in that one at all.
I very much look forward to part 3!
Serena
Serena,
Thanks. The judge that is hearing the Prop 8 case in California now, said to one of the attorneys who opposes marriage equality that he had just married a couple, one who was in their late 80′s and the other past 90 yrs old. He asked, “Since they can’t have children, should I not have married them?”
Sould women past menopause then not be allowed to marry? What about men who have had a radical prostatectomy for cancer who are rendered impotent from it?
Could anything diminish the value of marriage more than to suggest that its primary function was procreation? She is but a vessel; he is but a seed.
The Iowa Supreme Court Decision about gay marriage provides a strong rebuttal of all of the arguments against gay marriage.
Loren
As someone whose relationships are almost exclusively intergenerational, I sincerely appreciate you discussing this subject! Thank you.
Thanks for leaving your comment and I look forward to checking out The BlackoutBlog
Found this post via twitter. What a great post!
My husband is over 20 yrs older than me and we’ve been together for 10 years. It’s a relationship that has worked well for us.
People’s reactions to us (both lgbt and hetero) have been interesting. It’s been a mixed bag. Sometimes its the hetero couples/people that have been more accepting of our relationship. Sometimes not. The sugar daddy remarks have always irked me.
Anyway, thanks for the great article. Got your site bookmarked for further reading.
WOW! I never knew the background or anything when it came to intergenerational relationships. I also never knew it had a name other than “Father & Son” relationships. As an 18 year old homosexual male, I understand the risks that some men take in being interested in someone my age, but what I did not know was that older men may have a difficult time with my age. My thought-process was if they’re older,they will be happy in knowing they are attractive enough, potent enough, etc. to be noticed by a younger person. I really can understand what they may be going through…it may even explain some of the recent behavior I’ve been encountering from an older man I’ve been talking to.
Thanks Loren!
I’m happy you’re finding the information useful and I hope you’ll share it with your friends. Whe I was your age, there was NOTHING available anywhere.
I will address the “Father”/”Son” aspects of some intergenerational relationships another time. Although this comes up from time to time, others react very negatively to it because of its suggestion of incest and pedophilia, which it certainly isn’t according to most men I’ve talked to about it. Part III will address some of that, so come back again.
Loren Olson
Thanks for commenting. I understand your feelings about “sugar daddy” because it really diminishes the younger partner, suggesting you’re either unable to take care of yourself or just free loading on someone else’s success.
I think by some more open discussion about the topic people will come to understand that most of these relationships are based on loving one another.
Loren Olson
Like you said in your part 1, Loren, the basic ‘intergenerational’ aspect of these relationships isn’t that different from heterosexual relationships of that type. Society being what it is, though, these ‘younger woman/older man’ relationships are tolerated – even though, by the same token, they could be called father/daughter relationships.
Watch the uproar over that statement if it is voiced in ‘polite’ company! Just goes to show the deep-seated heterosexist prejudice that an older male interested in a much younger woman is showing ‘prowess’. There is no justice in this, but I think it goes back to the biological principles that drive most heterosexual people.
Any thinking human being should be able to recognize what is behind the ‘acceptance’ of those relationships (biology) as much as what is behind the prejudice against intergenerational homosexual relatoinships (fear and lack of understanding).
Serena
[...] you said on MagneticFire ["Why do Some Younger Men Like Older Gay Men?"], I was not taking him as a “sugar daddy.” My university is very good. At least in job [...]
i think that gay marriage should be allowed in certain states but not in other states ‘–
I’d be interested in hearing you say more about your thinking.